Re: Mixing resources

Mixing resources (October 30, 2009 12:51AM) Kent
I have clips shot on both a Canon XHA1 at 1440 x 1080i @ 60i and Canon 5D Mk2 @ 1920 x 1080. The output for this project will be to DVD and BD. How can I best combine the two outputs in FCP7?
Would a Pro Res conversion be appropriate for the 1440 x 1080 clips?
Thanks
Kent
Re: Mixing resources (October 30, 2009 06:37AM) Ken Stone Admin
Hi Kent,

Work the video in FCP as you normally would. You'll then need to export two times, one for SD DVD and the other for BD.

Yes, ProRes will work well with 1440 x 1080.

--ken
Re: Mixing resources (October 30, 2009 08:19AM) Kent
Thanks Ken, I'll give it a go.
Re: Mixing resources (October 31, 2009 05:35AM) Kent
I get aliasing in the 5D footage. This is my work flow to this point. My first timeline clip is 1440 x 1080 from the Canon XHA1, I have converted the 5d clips in MPEG Streamclip to ProRes (LT)1920 x 1080. MPEG Streamclip does not have a 1440 x 1080 conversion option. When I place the 5D clip onto the timeline it requires rendering. After the rendering process, which is very long, the played back timeline shows aliasing in the 5D footage.
What am I doing wrong?
I have read Andre Balias's article Capturing HDV Into ProRes Via FireWire. I notice that FCP7 does not recognize the XHA1 for this function. FCP6 did.
Thank you
Kent
Re: Mixing resources (October 31, 2009 07:23AM) Ken Stone Admin
Hi Kent,

Why are you using MPEG Steamclip, why not use Compressor which does a better job?

--ken
Re: Mixing resources (October 31, 2009 09:10AM) Kent
OK, I will use Compressor. Should I change the 5D footage to match the XHA1 at 1440 x 1080 @ 60i. The frame rates are different. What is the best way to handle that? Reduce them both to 29.97?

Setup is always the most difficult part to a project. Any suggestions on where I can educate myself? Articles and tutorials seem to brush over this and assume the use of a single film source.

Thanks for all the help.


Kent
Re: Mixing resources (October 31, 2009 09:52AM) Ken Stone Admin
Sounds crazy but I would convert both to ProRes 422 SQ.

You'll want to convert the 5D to 29.97, leave the frame size at 1920 x 1080, I assum this is what you shot/

I have this no converting frame rates.

[www.kenstone.net]

Convert the XHA1 footage to ProREs 1920 x 1080

Hard mixing different codecs, frame rates and sizes.

--ken
Re: Mixing resources (October 31, 2009 12:46PM) Kent
Ken
Thanks for the link to the article on frame rates. Very informative.

Does the same theory hold true for resolution in HD, that is it is better to increase than decrease. I have been working under the impression that resolution, size should not be increased. That it is better to decrease to a lower resolution than to try and add what is not there. Could you please explain why to up size resolution? The XHA1 resolution is 1440 x 1080.

Is your recommendation for ProRes 422 SQ meant to be HQ? A typo.

Again Thanks a Bunch

Kent
Re: Mixing resources (October 31, 2009 12:57PM) Ken Stone Admin
No, I meant SQ (standard quality) not HQ.

Your 1440 x 1080 footage is anamorphic 1920 x 1080. Every thime FCP goes to play a frame, it has to expand the frame out to it's full size.

You never said what format the canon is but I'm guessing HDV, is that right?

Your 5D footage is 1020 x 1080, I asked but you did not answer.

In any case, both the HDV and 5H use long GOP compression (one is MPEG 2 the other H.264)

Converting both to 1920 x 1080 ProRes means you'll be dealing with Intra frame video (every frame is a full frame) in a better color space of 4:2:2

--ken
Re: Mixing resources (October 31, 2009 01:20PM) Kent
Both the 5D and the XHA1 are HDV cameras.

The XHA1 is a mini dv camera and to download footage I must log and capture in FCP7. Am I correctly assuming that my Capture Presets should be "ProRes 422 1920 x 1080 30p 48khz" ?

To confirm my workflow for the 5D. After download I send the clips to Compressor and convert to ProRes 422 1920 X 1080 30p 48khz.

Thanks for your help and patience!

Kent
Re: Mixing resources (October 31, 2009 01:27PM) Ken Stone Admin
Sorry Kent,

The 5D is H.264, it shoots a ful raster 1920 x 1080, it is NOT HDV

The Canon, shoots HDV, 1440 x 1080 as MPEG 2.

They shoot with different codecs .

--ken
Re: Mixing resources (October 31, 2009 01:55PM) Kent
Now I am really confused. Full raster??????

I understand that they shoot in different codecs and that converting both to a single editing codec makes life easier in FCP7. From our dialog I assumed that editing codec was ProRes 422 1920 x1080 30p 48khz. What am I missing other than a full understanding of the cameras I own?

Ful raster, how is that different from HDV?

Again I Thank you

kent
Re: Mixing resources (October 31, 2009 02:41PM) Ken Stone Admin
When we say that a chip that shoots 1920 x 1080 is full raster, we mean that the width of the chip actually is 1920 pixels wide. There is one physical pixel on the chip for every digital pixel in the video file.

You HDV, that shoots 1440 at 1080, is not a full raster camera. It's chip width is only 1440 pixels. The visual image of 1920 is squeezed down so that it can fit onto a 1440 pixel wide chip. When played back in FCP, the image become unsqueezed and expands back to 1920

The Canon 5G shoots H.264 (which FCP can NOT handle) so it needs to be trancoded to ProRes, the pixels do not need to be changed as it already at a true1920. But it needs to go to ProRes to have it's frame rate changed as well. From 30.00 to 29.97.

The HDV MPEG 2 video at 1440 needs to have its pixels unsqueezed and locked in at 1920, transcoding to ProRes does this. It also needs to be transcoded to ProRes and out of MPEG 2

You are trying to mix two different formats, HDV which is not a good codec to work with and 5G, not a proper video format at all. Does it still shoot at 30.00 (I think it does)? 30.00 is not a proper video spec.

I have done what you are trying to do and the the results are excellent, but you are going to learn how to do it properly. Lots of transcoding time. You're pounding a square peg into a round hole.

--ken
Re: Mixing resources (November 01, 2009 01:12AM) Kent
Great explanation, now it makes sense.

Am I correct with this workflow.
For the XHA1 @ 1440 x 1080.
1. Capture with FCP7 at the recording settings which were HDV 1440 x 1080 60i.
2. Send to Compressor and convert to ProRes 422 1920x1080 30p (which is actually 29.97)
3. Import back to FCP7 with the Sequences Setting of ProRes 422 1920 x 1080 30p.

For the 5D
1. Capture with Canon's EOS Utillity
2. Send to Compressor and convert to ProRes 422 1920 x 1080 30p.
3. Import into FCP7 and proceed as always.

This old dog may have learned a new trick.

Thanks
Kent
Re: Mixing resources (November 01, 2009 03:08AM) Kent
After review I see that I am still confused with the XHA1 capture.
In FCP:
Easy Setup > Format = HDV, Rate = All Rates, Use = HDV - 1080i Firewire Basic

Any suggestions or changes you might recommend for my initial capture?

2. Send to Compressor and convert to ProRes 422 1920x1080 30p (which is actually 29.97)
3. Import back to FCP7 with the Sequences Setting of ProRes 422 1920 x 1080 30p.

How is the old dog so far?

Thanks

Kent
Re: Mixing resources (November 01, 2009 04:14AM) Ken Stone Admin
Start here, I think that there is a setting for you to capture the HDV as ProRes in the first place.

Follow the article over to Moviola for the free Easy Setups.

[www.kenstone.net]

--ken



Re: Mixing resources (November 01, 2009 12:36PM) Kent
Now I am cooking.
Thanks Ken for all the help.

Kent
Re: Mixing resources (December 10, 2009 09:06PM) greytail
I have been reading over these posts and want to make sure I understand what I have to do.

I have an XHAI that I normally shot at 60i
I have FCP 7 set up to import via a Black Magic Card and HDMI input via an HV30, I use Firewire to control the HV30. My settings are still at 60i
Everything works fine provided that I use my internal SATA drives in my MAC Pro

Now I have the 5D Mk 11. Are you suggesting running the 5D .mov files through compressor and transcoding to 29.7 interlaced? If so what about my 60i sequences in FCP? Should they be downsampled to 29.97 interlaced?. And what about matching up the audio correctly from the 30p non drop of the 5D with that of the XHA1? The Canon records at 44.1 khz... is compressor transcoding and upsampling to 48 khz?
Re: Mixing resources (December 12, 2009 10:13AM) Ken Stone Admin
If you are shooting with a 5D you would want to transcode the video in Compressor so that it matches your sequence settings as to frame size, frame rate and codec.

--ken
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