Re: FCP X look like iMovie Pro

Available in June from the Apps Store. $299 for FCPX on its own, on word on fate of other apps. I'd say move on this one with extreme caution.

Dave

Hi Dave,

I'm reserving judgement.......until June.

--ken

It's not about what it looks like, how it works and how it feels is what matters. Has the 3-point edit model completely gone away? What about filters and 3rd party support? FX Plug? FxScript? what about Generators? FCP's ability to do lots of mo-graphixy stuff? Tape? L&C? Export?

More questions than answers...1hr sadly can only cover so much..

Agreed, we're going to have to learn a lot more before we can understand what FCP X really is.

Also, what about Compressor/DVD SP/Motion/Color/SoundTrack - FC Studio suite?

--ken

from what i have read, color and soundtrack are 'absorbed' into FCPX
havent seen anything yet on motion or compressor... or the text area of FCP.. hope its good.

You haven't read anything official on that, just speculation. Like --ken said, we'll have to wait and see.

the background render is really great.
I got so use to it when i edited on Liquid. it is a real timesaver.
it would be nice if all my million plugins and filters i have for FCP 7 work on FCP X
I know thats really stretching it!

the $300 price tag is a bit worry-some though...
why so cheap?

Two thoughts come to mind. First off, $299.00 is the normal FC Studio upgrade price,

Or .... that could be the price for FCP alone without the other apps.

--ken

It would be nice if the $299 included the whole studio package as it did the last time. However I don't think that they will. it probably took all their effort in the last year to be able to manage to get the one application out in 64 bit code.

Adobe & Avid illustrated at last year's NAB how Apple was falling behind on their software development as a result of the huge profits they were making on mobile consumer devices. Apple simply had to come up with something to save face. It was probably quicker to adapt iMovie to be the next FCP as it probably already was 64 bit, than to continue with rewriting the existing FCP & there would be the side benefit that anyone wanting to upgrade from iMovie would experience a familiar interface. The fact that professional editing software is going to be sold through the App Store seems rather cheesy as well.

Dave

The price as quoted seems to be the App Store price. So no upgrade pricing as with the cheaper Aperture on the App Store. Cost of the next version of FCP after X? Same price - $299. It may also be that Studio is going the iLife route in terms of allowing consumers to but the parts they need rather than the whole suite. But time will tell.

I don't mind lower pricing - don't get the "I'm a pro so I want to pay poor prices' that some are arguing on various fora. FCP has been falling in price since it was released.

But this is nothing like iMovie. Nor is this anything like a classic FCP upgrade. Apple has created an entirely new professional editing application which has inherited the look and some of the features of iMovie that FCP really lacked. But the film-like editing style that has made FCP so popular among professionals has been preserved: JKL, 3-point editing, advanced trim modes... they are still there and have even been improved. Some functions that were handy but didn't really work well have been made redundant (such as subclips). New features like Auditioning and the magnetic timeline are just awesome and a long-requested feature in our line of work.

As with all new applications it will take some time to get used to the GUI and to some features we didn't have in the old FCP. Some of us will be reluctant to start thinking slightly differently and to adopt new ways of ingesting, organizing and even editing their content. But IMO the background rendering, use of all cores, unlimited RAM, ColorSync and the new color correction tools, advanced use of metadata, or just being able to start editing while you ingest and many other new functionalities will be quite convincing. This was just a very rough preview. As to what's up next, including the other apps in the former Final Cut Studio, I can only think of a song that made the Canadian band Bachman Turner Overdrive world famous back in 1974. I have been very critical in the past about the way FCP was going. Now other companies are really pushing people to try their editing software for free before FCPX hits the market. I can't blame them.

My 2 Eurocents.

Best wishes,

Ronny

Welcome back Ronny, we have missed your Euro wisdom
Steve

ronny courtens Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> But the film-like editing style that has made FCP
> so popular among professionals has been preserved:
> JKL, 3-point editing, advanced trim modes... they
> are still there

I'd be interested to hear how you know this to be the case, as it's very significant if it's true as you say. Thanks.

The latest version of iMovie had a lot of nice features also. I picked it up because I had a feeling that Randy was using it as a prototype for the next version fop. It wasn't until I actually tried to edit with it that I realized that looks & features on their own don't make for a good editing machine. So I won't be the first one in the pool, I'll let others get their feet wet & see if this
is a flexible enough tool for professional use. In the meantime there's a month to explore Avid Media Composer 5.5 for free as well as a month to explore Adobe Premier for a $59 rental. I'd rather stay with fcp if its a functional tool though.

Dave

Personally I am quite content to stay for a couple more years FCP7 & its studio package. Its just that I've always upgraded to every version of fop since ver.1. I was looking forward to upgrading to new version this year. However this interface looks too much like the current version of iMovie with which it shares many features.

Knowing how iMovie hampers any creative editing decisions makes me less than optimistic that all the wonderful new features will be implemented fashion that will actually be practical. I hope to be pleasantly surprised but I'll holding off longer than usual to see as I don't really need to be on the burning edge.

Dave

I hear ya. Hopefully someone at Apple will, too. But it's unlikely. They aren't too worried about customers they already have, it seems.

Also, there seems to be no mention of a new version of Compressor so does this mean that we are still on the wrong side of the tracks as far as HD delivery on Blu-Ray is concerned. It's such a big issue with FCP editors that I'm sure they would have mentioned it even if a new version is not ready but waiting in the wings.

I won't worry much about all the questions raised by the FCP team last night until I see the "official" info on apple.com.
I'd been checking till I went to bed but, as of this morning, nothing there yet. So, I'll "try" to forget about it until I get the email announcing FCP X. Meanwhile, I plan to keep using my FCS for a while.
Best wishes to all.
Alberto

Like I said earlier, I don't see myself running to get FCP X. Not before I take a good, hard look at the official specs when Apple post them. Like Joe, I think the "child-like" new interface is not too convincing. FCP never needed eye candy; that's for amateurs and Flip videographers (pardon my bluntness), not for the (FC) Pro users.

Alberto

Hi

From the info I have found so far this is a definitive wait and see. Though I think now the product seems sit right between FC Express and Final Cut Pro. Because of the automation of functions, but the more advance features for pro users 4k, 64 bit, color correction. Just my impression

From Larry's blog he is correct to worry about what Apple is not saying. Apple is very good at marketing and missdirecting your attention. The rest of the apps. Specifically Color, Compressor and DVD studio pro would be my concerns. If Apple is rolling features of Color into FCPx and you have background rendering(transcoding too?) then maybe you do not need these as separate applications anymore. Well from Apples point of view. This may not be good from workgroups where you have different individual roles or for true multitasking. DVD studio pro I can see being a dead product and not being included. We all know how Apple is viewing disk based media/video.

I do like some of the audio stuff they are improving on and how you can manipulate it in the time line. I swear I could do similar functions like this in premier years ago and it was great.

The real question now is will Ken rename his website to Final Cut Pro X? =)

sb

Hi Ronny,

Are you able to say whether there will be a Motion 5 or Soundtrack Pro 4?

Dave

Ronny, when you said...

"You are correct that the new GUI may take some time to adapt to. But althhough It looks a bit like iMovie that's where the comparison ends. While in iMovie you are stuck with the specific iMovie way of editing, in FCPX you can edit exactly the same way you as did in FCP7. You can just open clips in the viewer, place in and out points, use 3-point editing etc... And if you don't wish to use the advaced timeline features your timeline will look much like any timeline in FCP, Avid or PPro. "

...are you speaking rhetorically or as a beta tester that has hands on experience with FCP X? This is pretty crucial information that a majority of the professionals I spoke to at NAB have been extremely concerned about.

Hi Joe,

I agree. Apple would certainly be pretty stupid not to let FCP7 exist alongside FCPX. This is not an overhaul, it is pretty much a new application that will have to go through the process of real-life testing and probably some patches before we can really depend on it for our daily work. I'm sure Ken will be the first one to install FCPX and he will tell us when it is OK for the rest of us to safely take the plunge ((-:

Best wishes,

Ronny

Hi Ronny,

Welcome back to the board.

Personally I don't think that Apple handled this well at all. While they wanted to excite the FCP community, what they seem to have done was scare a lot of FCP users. They could have offered a few 'bullet points' at the SupertMeet show that would have calmed a lot of nerves but they failed to do this.

Simple things, like;

Will FCP 7 and X run side by side?

Will FCP X still handle tape for both input and output?

Will we still be able to use our large and expensive collection of third party plugins?

Will we be able to move a project from 7 to X or back again?

Will we still have important CCing tools like the Waveform monitor and Vector scope and three way color corrector?

Will people who have spent a fortune on capture cards still be able to use them?

There are others, but one Keynote screen shot shown on stage addressing these issues would have gone a long way to assuage peoples fears.

Unless, of course, we would not like the answers that Apple provided, then it makes sense not to divulge this information.

We know that the FCP team at Apple wants to hit a homerun, guess we'll have to sit back and wait to see if they knocked it out of the park or hit a pop fly.

As long as I can run FCP 7 and FCP X side by side them I'm 'willing'.

My 2 'X' cents

--ken

Ken Stone Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hi Ronny,
>
> Welcome back to the board.
>
> Personally I don't think that Apple handled this
> well at all. While they wanted to excite the FCP
> community, what they seem to have done was scare a
> lot of FCP users."

Yes Ken, they sure created a bit of anxiety for me. In fact, I left early and missed the raffle so I get back to the comfort of my house and ponder what I had just seen. I want to thank Ronny for allaying some of my greatest concerns on your website.

Tom Daigon
Avid DS / FCP / After Effects Editor
www.hdshotsandcuts.com

Jon Chappell posted at another board that as FCP X will be available from the Apple App Store, it will be a stand alone app and as such, should be able to co-exist with FCP 7. As Jon really knows his stuff, this would be good news.

--ken

I think most people could live with this is a work in progress for Apple, as long as it doesn't mess with the current fop 7 suite. For
all we know it could take 5 or 6 more years for this new version one of FCP to reach the level of functionality of fop 7. We'll just have to wait & see what we will lose with version. We know at the moment what we stand to gain, we don't know what we're going to lose.

Dave

As an teacher of Final Cut Pro, I know I will not be upgrading ( typically 35 seats each time ) .

I invested significant time getting over 120 students familiar with FCP 6&7 and now look forward to creative pursuits,
as opposed to "re learning & re teaching a new GUI. Simply no time.

I will however get a personal copy and no doubt enjoy the speed and power it offers once I learn.

We will all get to the same place in the end. Magnificent Projects we are proud of.

PH

Mitchell,

My best guess is that FCP X won't be up to full speed for several years. I think that there are feature not yet implemented that will take time to bring on board.

In the mean time, for some if not all of our work, there will still be 'good old' FCP 7.

--ken

oops this was a double post.

Best wishes,

Ronny

Hi Dave,

FCPX already includes some features we can find in STP, Color and even Motion and it is able to perform any audio and motion analysis upon ingest. It also has a new proprietary title tool. My guess is that we will continue to see a further integration of all pro apps over time, which would be a good thing. Until then I think Apple will continue to develop other successful pro apps such as Motion alongside FCP, and an update of Motion in the near future would be within the expected time frame.

Best wishes,

Ronny

While I love the idea of FC being 64 bit, rendering while I am still able to work and a few other things pointed out in the 4 videos, I do not relish the thought of having to go back to square 1 and learn an entirely new NLE. I have never bothered with iMovie in any of its incarnations and it sounds as if starting over is the way it will be. Who knows at this point. Final Cut has always stepped on previous versions, unlike Adobe where you can have different versions of the same app installed at one time. I do hope that this new FC version can co exist with FC 7
Steve

I have noticed much wisdom in the reactions on this board. I can only hope that Apple has held this premature sneak preview exactly to incite as many reactions as possible and that they will actually listen to our concerns before releasing the first official version of this new software. I agree they could have been more reassuring in their presentation, especially as this is such a drastic change. In the beta version that was shown many functions were still dimmed and I guess a lot of work will still be done in the next 2 months.

As for our company my decision has been made. We will run two bays with FCPX from day one of its release but we will continue to do all critical work on the existing FCP7/FCS3 bays until we are satisfied the new application lives up to our expectations.And I must admit these expectations are very high. I don't mind investing time in learning a different GUI and new features as long as this investment offers a really drastic improvement to our workflow. At this point a drastic improvement had become really necessary, and I think I can speak for many other people in our line of work. So let's keep an open mind about all this and continue to share our experiences as we go along. That's what this board is famous for.

Best wishes,

Ronny

Keep in mind that since it is a downloaded app for $299, it will probably be good for only one computer. Would hate to have to pay twice for both my desk and laptop.
Steve

I have decided that I am not going to waste my time worrying about all of this. Sure, there are some changes that I don't like (mainly the child-like GUI), but I'm pretty sure it won't step on FCP7. Quicktime X still lets you have the REAL Quicktime installed. Plus, there is no way they can expect people to hit the ground with their feet running right away when there are deadlines to meet. It would be essential to have FCP7 also installed just in case. As stupid as I think Apple is sometimes, I believe they at least know this. This will help ease the transition to the new X. Plus, the new features ARE cool and will speed things up significantly even on my dumb ol' quad core.

Just a side thought.... what happens to the Mac OS after 10.9.9? OS XI?

Hi Joe,

I sure hope you are right about this. (it does make sense, but is Apple smart enough to realize this)

--ken

One of the benefits of the new FCPX being a version one software is that the learning curve should not be all that steep. We should be able to learn at a gradual pace as more & more of the features are added back every 2 yrs. with a new release & the interface will evolve to a more editor friendly experience over time.

Dave

I kind of like how FCP 7 looks like an OS 9 app. It really hasn't changed much in the GUI since FCP 1, which is when I started with the app. Why hasn't it changed in well over 10 years? Because it hasn't needed to. I have never once ran into anyone who ever said anything similar to "Final Cut Pro is great but that GUI just restricts me and I don't like it!" So I really do not understand the logic that made them stand up and say "We need to change the GUI, by golly. This will benefit users and attract new users as well." I think the new users they are trying to attract are in the amateur iMovie market whose eyes fill with stars when they see shiny things.

As for editing style, I hope I don't have to change mine. I drag stuff directly from the appropriate BIN to the timeline. I don't drag things to the Canvas window as Insert/Overwrite/Replace stuff offers no advantages for me. Using that stuff is akin to driving an automatic whereas I like to drive a manual. I like to be in exact control on what's going on my timeline and where with my own hands. I hope I am not forced to edit by dragging stuff to the canvas or whatever they end up calling it (probably the iReality Window or something). I am currently trying the 30 day trial for the Avid Media Composer thingy. So far it is absolutely horrid. I can barely make a dissolve and it requires I drag the actual dissolve to the timeline (it's easier to click on a transition point in FCP and select your transition from the menu). There seems to be no way to adjust the timings of the dissolve that I can find (I'm sure it's there, it's just counter-intuitive). The whole thing is a mess and the GUI is restricting and awful.