Re: Discontinuing x?

I heard from a pretty trust worthy cat who develops 3rd party apps for NLE, who said he has heard ripples of discussion about apple discontinuing X due to poor reviews and more importantly small number of users. Those who really know x and user rate would know a lot more then me if this is only a rumor or maybe actual future course of action for apple. Ronny?

Peter,

I think that this is about the most ridiculous thing that I have ever heard.

--ken

Hi Peter,

Ridiculous doesn't even get close.

Last week we were in Denmark setting up a new FCP X shared storage workflow for 30 simultaneous users at a major television production company. International broadcasters such as BBC, TF1 and others have purchased thousands of FCP X installs for their worldwide news and sports programming. Just a few days ago Sam Mestman posted on different groups that they were looking for a large number of experienced FCP X editors for their major clients in LA. And this is only the tip of the iceberg. In their official sales statements Apple announced that the number of FCP X licenses purchased last year had already exceeded the total purchases of classic FCP licenses over seven years. If you really want to know how well FCP X is doing, just read the user stories at FCP.co. It's high time for the haters and bashers to shut up and accept reality if they don't want to sound like complete idiots anymore. I wish I could tell you more but: you ain't seen nothing yet (-:

Best wishes,

Ronny

I threw in my towel and began to learn x and PP at same time. Pp learning curve not steep at all. keep on getting jobs, which is a blessing so cutting on legacy. jobs slow down in two weeks so will go back to tutorials on both pp and X.

The cat who i did speak to had pretty good track record as developer and tons of success, that is why i just did not think he was starting a rumor but was based on some veracity. seems from your guys inside intel that his instincts are totally absurd and and crazy. Glad i asked, now more compelled to continue to learn x
Thanks

Hi Peter,

I don't live in Ronny's world of corporate NLE work, I deal with individuals one at a time.

Over the past year I have had, almost on a weekly basis, people writing me saying that they are moving from FCP 7 or PP or Avid back to Apple and FCP X. They say that they are glad to have made the switch back.

True, many FCP legacy users who are now using Avid or PP will probably stay there but more and more first timers are running FCP X. More Universities, Colleges and High schools are starting to teach FCP X and so it is growing a new user base. And the numbers are large.

Just last week I received an email from someone with whom I have been corresponding with about FCP for the past year. He said that he was glad that he finally listened to me and dnl the FCP X free demo, worked with it, bought the retail version and had just cut a complex project. He was coming back from PP and said that he could not be happier with X. He said that it is "so powerful".

So .... from where I sit, it looks like the FCP X user base is growing at a rapid rate. I know many people who use X on a daily basis and make their living with it. It is their tool of choice. If you have worked with FCP X, and taken the time to learn the program you'll understand why it is gaining traction in the NLE world. Don't listen to those 'nay-sayers' spend some time with X and decide for yourself.

My 2 cents.

--ken

Hi Ken,

As an editor who has been using Final Cut Pro since vers.2 in 2001 right up through 7, I was reluctant to try X. I did try it in early 2013 and couldn't get my head around it. Finally, in November, 2014, I gave it another shot. With the help of Larry Jordan's fantastic and very methodical tutorials, it began to sink in. Ronny is so correct when he says that you have to let go of the format of editing that you've become used to in Legacy. Once I got the hang of it, I found using X liberating. I'm still learning but I've found that with X, there is so much more I can do in terms of graphic effects work. I'm just finishing a job with a lot of green screen scenes and the keying feature in X is far beyond what I had in 7. X also works beautifully with CoreMelt's Mocha Slice which I highly recommend. Using it in X, I was able to easily remove cables and rigs in the green screen work.

In fairness, I have to say that I did try PP first. Although I found the transition from FCP 7 quite painless, PP as a whole seemed clunky and awkward compared to 7. However, I did appreciate its connectivity to AfterEffects and Photoshop and the audio program, Audition, is terrific. So is Adobe Media Encoder which comes with them in the CC package. So after using the trial version of PP, I was almost ready to go with it. Then I gave FCP X a second chance and here I am. I also have to say that the Adobe subscription plan was a deal breaker for me. I really didn't like the idea of my credit card being dinged every month in perpetuity.

And, that Ken, is my 2 cents.

-Phil

It does seem the whole effects style plugin market has been shifting as FCPX grows.
One can certainly speculate but some of the notable things are:

NoiseIndustries going from FCPX centric to supporting Adobe products as well. Although there are still FCPX exclusive plugins.

RedGiant creating Universe, a number of free plugins included (like NoiseIndustries) but adding FCPX support for several of the higher end plugins like KnollLightFactory and ToonIt.

Related to RedGiant is CrumplePop, which had been FCPX exclusive, adding some of their plugins to Universe and, therefore, supporting other NLEs.

GenArts killing SaphireEdge, while not FCPX exclusive, was their only product that supported FCPX amongst others.

CoreMelt, which is FCPX exclusive, starting to bring their plugins to the App Store.

I'd "heard" that BorisFX hand't been encouraged by BCC sales to FCPX users although their merger with ImagineerSystems (which is key to CoreMelt's SliceX, TrackX) should make things interesting.

It would seem some of the patterns are:
Big plugin makers entice with lots of free plugins as part of a bigger paid group.
FCPX plugin makers are expanding beyond that NLE.
CoreMelt, rather than adding other NLEs moves to the App Store.

I don't doubt the huge amount of free plugins both from the bigger companies and from those small altruistic types are forcing changes in business models.

I hand't mentioned you because I was hoping you'd add that info :)
You had expressed concern about declining sales.
You seem to be one of the few brave FCPX only plugin developers remaining.
Looking forward to see what you have cooking up.
Would the App Store be viable for you?

I agree, Peter. Just never, ever believe anyone who says FCP X is going to be discontinued or that Apple does not care about professionals. Those people simply don't have a clue. I get so many questions from individual pros who are switching to FCP X and from big companies who are adding it to their current setups now that I would say quite the opposite is happening. I think by the end of this year you will see that today we haven't even touched the surface of what FCP X will become.

Best wishes,

Ronny

Ronny,

Hope all is well. Curious if you had a ballpark price on the 30 simultaneous users at a major television production company you mentioned. I have a crew of 10 videographers who edit projects on individual drives. (More to come in the future) We also have a photography department that is working on developing a shared system. And rough estimates are coming in for $25 grand plus. I just know if it will run as smooth for video. Backing up is one thing, editing with AVC files in real time can definitely tie up a system. Ugh. I would love a centrally located storage system with iMacs branching from them.

Any pointers in the right direction would be great. :)

Best,

Jason

Hey Jason,

A shared system for photography work is far less performant than a professional video server. The system we set up at Metronome Productions (a division of Shine International) is a classic SAN that has been configured by one of the world's most respected video system engineers.

Actually it's not that big, just 96 TB central storage to start with, but it can be extended to 1 PetaByte. At this time 10 stations (maxed out 27 inch iMacs) are connected to the system over a 10 GigE switch for simultaneous editing (300 MB/s constant read on each client which equals approximately 16 layers of native XDCAM HD 422 50i on each client), while 24 other users can connect to it anywhere in the building over 1 GigE for previews, rough cuts and whatnot (journalists, producers, production team).

The system is configured as RAID 6, which gives double redundancy. This means that even when two drives fail at the same time you still can continue to edit without any data loss while the system restores itself. For that reason you don't need a "hot" (nearline) backup system, which is very expensive. Scheduled backups are made over Chronosync via a MacMini that acts as a server for a bunch of Pegasus Thunderbolt enclosures that are connected as JBOD.

During our stress tests we worked with 5 editors simultaneously on the same 1-hour multicam clip with 7 native MXF XDCAM 422 angles, each with 8 channels of uncompressed audio. We got near to zero latency and FCP X responded extremely fast, as if we were working with a fast attached Promise Thunderbolt RAID.

This system runs on OSX Server and NFS and it is works exclusively with FCP X. The total price for the setup is under 40K, including 18 enterprise-class drives and ten 10GigE to Thunderbolt 2 interfaces (which together cost 10K by themselves). I have asked quotations from different companies that offer "all-in-one" shared storage solutions. All prices were much (and I mean much) higher than this classic SAN.

You should know that no two shared storage systems are the same. I have seen many people who have lost lots of time and money trying to set up such a thing themselves without getting any decent speeds. The hardware actually is the less difficult part. A detailed workflow assessment to determine exactly what you need and (most important) what you don't need, plus the assistance of a video SAN expert to remotely configure and optimize the system for your specific needs, are far more important than picking the right hardware.

If you ever consider setting up a professional shared storage network for FCP X video editing I will be happy to help you work out the details. Just drop me an e-mail: ronnycourtens(at)mac(dot(com).

Best wishes,

Ronny

That sounds totally bad ass Ronny! Our company has grown tremendously over the last 9 years in the wedding industry in Michigan. And I can see this as a sound investment. When we are ready to afford to go this route...we also just bought a 4000 sq ft building to house all of our photography and videography post productions. Good times. I will be sure contact you.

On a side note I can see what you're saying about having a SAN expert to help configure and optimize the system. For what I'm hearing I don't have full confidence in this individual for various reasons. I'm glad you mentioned the outline of the system. I can relate to my staff and see if it's close to what they're setting up.

Thanks again Ronny!

Thank you Ronny

See my silly topic on x BEING discontinued has lead to a fruitful discussion for many.

Jason,

I will be glad to offer you free advice with regard to your current shared storage plans. You or your team are welcome to send me the information you have and we will give you our objective opinion on what we think about it. I don't have any financial gains in any of this, I just hate to see people waste good money on systems or workflows that don't work as expected and then blame their software for the mistakes others have made (-: So just drop me an e-mail and I will be happy to help you.

Best wishes,

Ronny

Thank you again for your offer Ronny. I spoke to our VP and they are interested in emailing you for your expertise. I hope sometime this week.

Best,

Jason

That's perfect, Jason. I will be happy to assist.

Best wishes,

Ronny

and hot damn Ronny the discussion may just lead to more work for and deeper friendships

Hi Ronny,

I hope all is well. Just wanted to make sure received my email about the system we are thinking about getting.

Please let me know either way.

Much appreciated!

Jason